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Author Topic: Obama under fire over NASA.  (Read 13268 times)
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« on: October 04, 2011, 06:24:20 AM »

Obama under fire over space plans
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Obama_under_fire_over_space_plans_999.html

Too late IMHO. Some of the damage - especially the human one - is already irreversible.

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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 06:51:16 AM »

Place your bets: how much time until NASA Official Sacrificial Goat C. Bolden is replaced? While CB's past achievements and contribution as a Space Shuttle Astronaut are undeniable, his performance as a NASA Admin are questionable at best. Apart from being an excellent yes-man and convenient Presidential political appointee, he's really done nothing. Really. He does NOTHING except for issuing Party line statements without any tangible substance. I pity him actually. He MAY want to do something, but he can't, and he seems dangerously comfortable with the situation...

As such, I see CB as the ideal candidate for being sacrificed by the POTUS when it's high time for diverting the public fire and scrutiny from the POTUS responsibility on the situation.

This time there is nothing that I actually KNOW from our sources - it's rather my take of the situation.

What's yours? How much time does C. Bolden have left as NASA Admin?

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« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 06:57:07 AM by Admin » Logged

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Moonwalker
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 07:17:53 PM »

I have no idea how long Bolden will be in the office. But I think it doesn't really matter. NASA is out of the business of manned space flight anyway. I don't think there is a return. And it's not only because of Obama, but also due to the bad situation of the USA and the economic problems all over the world these days. Nobody will fund billions for space flight these days. It's one of the last items of the list of politicians. Even ESA got dumped lately: no money for own manned programs.

Although I respect Cernan and Armstrong, but it seems they did not arrive in 21st century. But Aldrin did, since he knew that Constellation was a concept to nowhere and that space flight has to be more independent from election campaigns and politics, i.e. it has to be commercial. And that's what Cernan and Armstrong fail to see or lets say where they exaggerate: there will be US access to space, but just not performed by NASA but by SpaceX and other companies.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 07:20:21 PM by Moonwalker » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 09:46:22 PM »

I could see a real acceleration of the demoralising dwindling decay of NASA's future in the early 00's. One Article (real or not) saying that Military Air conditioning cost are greater then NASA's budget, says it all really.

CB does seem he's trying to make the best of a bad situation, but, sadly he does look like a yes man and is trying to save a dying patient, without the correct drugs and tools.

The future, undoubtedly, is commerical. Where the big money is going to come in the form of spin off technologies (better, lighter materials, etc) and the patents associated to them, rather than the cost of flying people/hardware into space.

The people (engineers, astronauts, leaders) of the 50's to 80's gave us so much vision and opportunity that in the last 20-30 years, we done very little. It's a sad legacy to leave. Okay, achivements such as ISS, robotic missions to other planets and something called the space Shuttle were impressive, but there has not been a bold leap for mankind since Apollo. In the 60's it took 10 years to get to the moon. Today, it looks like it's going to take 20 years...
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 01:03:46 AM »

The people (engineers, astronauts, leaders) of the 50's to 80's gave us so much vision and opportunity that in the last 20-30 years, we done very little. It's a sad legacy to leave. Okay, achivements such as ISS, robotic missions to other planets and something called the space Shuttle were impressive, but there has not been a bold leap for mankind since Apollo.

Apollo was a big political and technological leap related to the time during it was happening, but it was just a tiny step scientifically with a mission to nowhere (i.e. show the Russians that we can do so, but nothing more). In fact the most technologocial and scientific progress in space did happen after the Moon landings, by developing the Shuttle and all the resulting benefits of which the ISS is the biggest, way bigger than just a few footprints on the Moon although footprints on the Moon seem more impressive for a lot of people.

In the 60's it took 10 years to get to the moon. Today, it looks like it's going to take 20 years...

Today it could take even way less than 10 years, in case politicians only would throw a enough money to NASA. But this would be what Apollo already was and Constellation was going to be: a mission to nowhere. Apollo would have ended anyway. Because the mission was done: to land on the Moon and return safely. That was the only thing Apollo was assigned for, producing a big TV show for the Russians with huge costs and efforts. Constellation was not different, except there is no cold war anymore.

Before landing on the Moon again we need a program that offers more than that, including all the required hardware whilst being affordable. But NASA can't afford it as shown in the past and present. NASA takes billions of dollars just for developing one rocket that does nothing more than theoretically launch a payload into LEO. No Moon mission hardware and no concepts. And even on top of the new SLS their MPCV/Orion still won't be launched before 2020. Because NASA's first goal always is keeping/creating jobs. The truth meanwhile is that NASA is not needed anymore for launching rockets. This can be done with tremendously less costs by the commercial sector. SpaceX is the ultimate proof that this is not just a flight of fancy. It has become reality. But what we need NASA for is the science, and the infrastructure to train and prepare astronauts to ride these vehicles.

SpaceX now has access to space. And manned in future, way before the MPCV might lift off. And SpaceX already has a heavy lift launcher in the backpack, which just consists of three Falcon 9s. Simple, cheap and reliable design. Plus: Dragon can be used for LEO and BEO mission profiles. It is not a malice to say that we don't need NASA anymore for the transportation part. It is just realistic. So developing the SLS and MPCV actually makes no sense and wastes just another billions and a lot of time for something that SpaceX already does offer way sooner for less costs...
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DenisFerrari
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 07:26:07 PM »

Bush --> Obama = NASA destruction, thousands of humans lost their jobs, no real perspective for US near future manned space exploration...
What do they only think ? Just make war business for building weapons... This is it.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 06:35:48 PM »

Bush --> Obama = NASA destruction, thousands of humans lost their jobs, no real perspective for US near future manned space exploration...

True. And it's very sad indeed. But, on the other hand, if we just think economically: why creating/keeping lots of jobs and a big infrastructure for something that can be done by less jobs and more efficiently?

What do they only think ? Just make war business for building weapons... This is it.

Yes. It is rather disgusting how much money the USA has spend for useless military operations in the middle east.
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Spaceguy5
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 06:13:02 AM »

Ha, not just the middle east. Generalize that statement more to "It is rather disgusting how much money the USA has spend for useless military operations and equipment." The US isn't /just/ in the middle east right now, also think of all the money that's wasted on useless weapons contracts. Hell, several times congress has even approved new technology that the military didn't even want. Plus the way money is spent is just outright wasteful, even for NASA. For example, my mom sells embroidery supplies. A few years ago someone from JSC called her wanting to buy some, and he over-paid explaining that he had to spend all the budget money.

If the government cut a bunch of that useless military crap (or at the very least, optimized spending) and allocated some of the funds towards spaceflight, I think there's a lot more we could get done. Though of course, the space program needs more support. I think that's our biggest issue... not enough people in the general public (and especially people in high-powered positions) care enough about the space program.

Also as far as the "Apollo and Constellation both had no real aim" argument, I very much disagree with that. It was more than just "lol, we're on the moon." They did lots of research, experiments, and exploring on the moon as well. The area we've explored on the moon is very, very small. Plus I imagine some excellent spin-off technologies would be developed just from the technology we'd need to develop to live long-term on the moon (which was the eventual goal for Constellation. Heck, I imagine if Nixon hadn't cut Apollo, that program would have continued on to long-term habitation).
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DenisFerrari
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 07:14:57 AM »

...I think that's our biggest issue... not enough people in the general public (and especially people in high-powered positions) care enough about the space program.

You're 110% right , that's extremely and sadly true : not enough powerful people care enough about space program ... and this will surely lead to a long stop of manned space exploration ... on the contrary, maybe all this will produce a huge waste of money while starting and ending funny and unreal manned space programs like the few just canceled in the last year or more ...

Of course it's all about politics .. and huge interests ... no one more really cares of send humans exploring space ... Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Space Shuttle eras has definetely ended from so many points of view....

This is sad.
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Spaceguy5
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 08:13:17 PM »

What we need is to gather up more support for it. We have some interest groups like the National Space Society, but they still aren't nearly as powerful nor have nearly as many active members as other interest groups out there. That's where the political power in this country comes from... interest groups with a lot of members and a lot of money who can sway lobbyists and politicians in congress to get bills passed.
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 09:17:14 PM »

Another problem is that Obama has been diverting funds from national projects to electorate-buying "projects" like the controversional National Health benefitting everybody - which sounds good in theory,  IF YOU HAVE THE BUDGET!

I don't want to open a Pandora box here about his documented IMPORT of votes from paradises such as Somalia and Pakistan, whose some of their finest sons have been apprehended and charged with several failed and/or planned terror attacks (Times Square and the Christmas Tree gathering comes to mind).

Specifically NASA, he changed its mandate so many times that nobody there seems to know what's expected from them. One of the more controversial mandates is to empower Muslims to feel better about themselves. NASA? Racial politics? What about some SPACE EXPLORATION? What about a coherent SPACE PROGRAM? But this is not important while November 2012 is in his sights, not the future of a nation.

He almost bankrupted the nation over these irresponsible and arrogant schemes and when Congress pulled the handbrakes on his reckless spending spree, he again holds NASA hostage over this, blaming the Congress for not approving the Webb ST and other important programs. But he doesn't even consider capping his spending on his vote-generating, budget eating pet projects.

People will remember Bush for chickening out of the STS program and Obama and his minions for amputating and emasculating NASA (and the US) for at least 10 years!

It makes me sick to even talk about this.

Rant off.

BTW, I don't mind being flamed over this, but I still expect the flames to be civilized and mature (and of course, documented and based on fact, not mainstrema media-induced hallucinations).

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DenisFerrari
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 04:41:40 PM »

Holy words Admin! I totally agree with you ... also, I think at this non return point the NASA disaster and weak futur for manned space exploration is clearly visible by anyone ... blinds included.


...it's so sad.

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Moonwalker
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 02:09:15 AM »

Also as far as the "Apollo and Constellation both had no real aim" argument, I very much disagree with that. It was more than just "lol, we're on the moon." They did lots of research, experiments, and exploring on the moon as well. The area we've explored on the moon is very, very small. Plus I imagine some excellent spin-off technologies would be developed just from the technology we'd need to develop to live long-term on the moon (which was the eventual goal for Constellation. Heck, I imagine if Nixon hadn't cut Apollo, that program would have continued on to long-term habitation).

The program never was meant to be sustainable seriously. It would have ended after Apollo 20 at the very latest. There was no further funding and no additional hardware (except the orbital workshop which became Skylab, made of Saturn 1b remains). The existing hardware (they didn't even have enough rockets for an Apollo 20 mission) politically just was meant to beat the Russians, although scientists had a lot of dreams and hopes of course. But the people at NASA where taken down to the cold reality of what it means when space flight and science is dependent on legislative periods and elections.

It all was luck, from Mercury to STS, because there was political willingness due to the presence of the Soviet communist threat. But these days there is no such a threat and political willingness anymore. And like Spaceguy5 said, that people don't care enough about the space program anymore. Today they have to bother with the effects of unregulated globalization (economics) and energy issues in the future (resources). The area of big space programs sadly but simply is over. That's why I am convinced that it doesn't matter who is in the office of NASA and the White House. The NASA admin guy is a puppet and the president guy isn't interested in space flight. Actually the president guy never was, it always just was a demonstration of political power rather than a real interest in science and exploration Sad
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 01:01:14 PM »

Want to hear a really disgusting fact?

Two weeks of Welfare in this country is the equivalent of NASA's entire yearly budget.  Let that sink in.......TWO WEEKS.

So the .gov basically allows that money to flow down a black hole instead of providing jobs which advance the technology in the country.  It is absolutely sickening.
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DenisFerrari
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 01:22:40 PM »

...wow !! ... it makes me even more nervous and sad about all this Sad

Anyway, thank you for the update.

Denis

 

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