Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
  Print  
Author Topic: Can the Shuttle reach the Moon?  (Read 32437 times)
Admin
Commander
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 4,665


Sic Itur Ad Astra


WWW
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2011, 07:13:45 AM »

What kind of modification we need to allow the Shuttle to go to the moon ? We can imagine a LEM on the Payload Bay and with extra OMS tank fuel too for the trip Smiley

Here you go for the NASA analysis, but it is not based on any OMS usage but SSME usage (the OMS simply is not powerful enough and the payload bay would not offer any space for additionals payloads other than fuel anyway):

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19910014907_1991014907.pdf

According to another - currently unpublished - document, the OMS need  not to be "powerful enough". They only need enough fuel for a TLO. PLB enough for that.

/Admin
Logged

- The Space Shuttle Mission 2007(tm)Team -
Moonwalker
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 936


« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2011, 07:26:29 AM »

Well, finally I got some time to validate the claim that the Space Shuttle could go to the moon solely based on using the OMS.

I did it by using another simulation which is based on accurate physics and numbers, in cunjunction with a corresponding accurate Space Shuttle addon. The starting situation was: payload bay empty and full OMS propellant available of course. I did increase the apogee every time I passed the perigee, by a 30 seconds OMS burn. I did this down to the last drop of OMS propellant.

And this is what I got: an apogee of 9550 kilometers, or in other words an altitude of about 3600 kilometers above earth surface. Taking into account that the mean distance between earth and moon is 384400 kilometers: with the entire OMS propellant available and an empty payload bay the Space Shuttle does not even travel 1% of the distance to the moon!

Now, the claim states that the payload bay is used for OMS propellant supply to reach the moon. Let's take a look at it: the Space Shuttle can carry a maximum of 24400 kilograms to low earth orbit, which is not even twice the mass of propellant the OMS fuel tanks can hold (13500 kilograms). And we don't take the weight of the additionl OMS fuel tanks into account here, less than ever any capability for additional life support. This way, the Shuttle would not even carry twice as much OMS propellant as usual. And with the usual amount of OMS propellant the shuttle only manages to travel about 1% of the dictance to the moon by raising the apogee with an empty payload bay.

Well, I don't think we need any further calculation or speculation to realise that the OMS has not the capability, not even in case the entire payload bay is used for additional OMS propellant supply, to travel anywhere in vicinity of the moon.

Supplementary

Doing it via direct insertion or by increasing the apogee every orbit gives the same result by the way: an altitude of about 3600 kilometers. Only the required time is different: 13 minutes for direct insertion and 3 days via adjusting the orbit to get the same apogee. The required delta v to reach the moon does not change no matter how you do it. And the OMS simply does not provide that delta v. Not even if the "little" (in that relation) payload capability is used for OMS propellant supply.

Also, it took 3 days to get a "max OMS propellant apogee" which is 1% of the distance we would need to reach the moon. This way it would take about 10 month to reach the Moon. And again, no life support is considered here, which would reduce the available capability of OMS propellant support.

So, no way would the Space Shuttle fly to the moon solely based on using the OMS, or in other words reach an apogee of 390k kilometers solely based on using the OMS. Not even theoretical.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:36:40 AM by Moonwalker » Logged
Admin
Commander
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 4,665


Sic Itur Ad Astra


WWW
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2011, 07:37:20 AM »

I am happy you are playing Smiley Keep at it.

But make sure that before any claim, just say "according to my calculations...", like you did now, so that we know the context and have the freedom to decide what to believe.

/Admin
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:40:51 AM by Admin » Logged

- The Space Shuttle Mission 2007(tm)Team -
Moonwalker
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 936


« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2011, 07:44:38 AM »

make sure that before any claim, just say "according to my calculations...",

Not based on my calculations. Based on an newtonian accurate simulation Wink
Logged
Admin
Commander
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 4,665


Sic Itur Ad Astra


WWW
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2011, 07:47:37 AM »

make sure that before any claim, just say "according to my calculations...",

Not based on my calculations. Based on an newtonian accurate simulation Wink

OK, whatever. Blame it on Newton, the simulation and the data that was fed into the sim Wink

/Admin
Logged

- The Space Shuttle Mission 2007(tm)Team -
Moonwalker
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 936


« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2011, 07:56:30 AM »

make sure that before any claim, just say "according to my calculations...",

Not based on my calculations. Based on an newtonian accurate simulation Wink

OK, whatever. Blame it on Newton, the simulation and the data that was fed into the sim Wink

Yes Smiley Especially the data which was the correct OMS delta v and masses for the OMS propellant and Shuttle.

But never mind. It was fun and an interesting sight how the earth looks like once the OMS propellant is fully burned. I wouldn't like to be aboard of such a mission although the sight was awesome Grin
Logged
Admin
Commander
Shuttle Pilot
*****
Posts: 4,665


Sic Itur Ad Astra


WWW
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2011, 08:06:45 AM »

As I said, whatever.

/Admin
Logged

- The Space Shuttle Mission 2007(tm)Team -
Alexander19851
Just joined training
*
Posts: 5


« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2011, 12:08:46 AM »

Guys i hate ty that going to the moon with the shuttles in this game is a big "NO!" Cry Sad Sad but if NASA can some how make a moon landing for the Space Shuttle To land they'll have to find a away to make the shuttle land two times and we'll have to go back to Apollo Space Suits Or Make new suits. And have for it to launch like an airplane so we it won't be stuck there or put alot of OMS Fuel for lift off and all astronaughntst and the shuttle will only way 33,000 lbs on the moon at least.
Logged
Cras
Astronaut
***
Posts: 182


« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2011, 11:45:21 PM »

You are spot on Alexander

It would be a rought landing that is for sure.  Not sure is rolling on the rocky regolith of the moon is good for the tires.

The OMS engines are some very very weak sauce and have zero chance of getting the Shuttle from the 25k feet per second required for LEO to the 35k feet per second required to get the apoapsis out to the moon.

And the Shuttle is (or was Sad  )  freakin' huge, and a massive space craft.  There is no soft landing and nice take off from the lunar surface with a DC9 sized space plane.


And again great point in that the suits, the equipment all needs to be re-engineered for lunar transfer.  Though it would have been one heck of a sight to see the Shuttle in a barbeque roll on the way to the moon.


I recommend to anyone feeling the itch to land a space plane on the moon, try the XR-2

If you are interested in building the ISS, servicing the HST, SSMS is as epic as it comes to Space Shuttle sims.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
SMF Theme Designed by XP Concept