Author Topic: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......  (Read 19911 times)

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2011, 09:35:28 PM »
Ooooooookie dookie now....... How did we go from my question about going backwards to fighting over who's the best country?  ;D  I thought this might happened so I really choose my words carefuly in the original post. (how did that work out?) Nice to see that I can provoke some stimulating conversation though :o

But back to my original question: If you can put aside your thoughts, opinions, and some times correct analysis of why it's just not affordable, I just can't see how you folks can still say we're not going backwards. Going from a shuttle based system to a capsule based system in my opinion is backwards. No more working on satillites and things of that nature. To bad the Russian Shuttle Buran was destroyed when the roof of the hanger it was in collapsed in May 2002.

But we'll always have our Shuttle Simulator!  :-*

You just managed to get through without a scratch! LOL!

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Tempest

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2011, 12:46:46 PM »
Sorry-but I'm  not going to get into it. Not going to wear a hair shirt.

NOBODY and I mean NOBODY does it better then us. Nor are they as consistent. Not the Chinese, Russians, Europeans. None of them are giants 10 ft tall.

Be it communication satellites, spy, research, interplanetary exploration and the delivery vehicles to get that stuff in orbit.  I can't think of anyone.
All of it innovative, original in design.

Ooops-I forgot to add GPS to the aforementioned list.

HLV issue is a bump in the road-nothing more. A lot has been happening in space since the moon landings. APOLLO was just one of many programs. And programs come and go. But we still put them in orbit-consistently.

I don't want to argue... sorry, but THAT is exactly the bigheaded chitchat that stirs scepticism about the US in non-US countries all over this planet. A bit too arrogant...


Not arrogant. Or -ah-big headed. Or a bit too arrogant.

Just fact.

And your a Moderator?

I'll stick to visiting the helpful hints. Ciao.

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2011, 01:06:23 PM »
Sorry-but I'm  not going to get into it. Not going to wear a hair shirt.

NOBODY and I mean NOBODY does it better then us. Nor are they as consistent. Not the Chinese, Russians, Europeans. None of them are giants 10 ft tall.

Be it communication satellites, spy, research, interplanetary exploration and the delivery vehicles to get that stuff in orbit.  I can't think of anyone.
All of it innovative, original in design.

Ooops-I forgot to add GPS to the aforementioned list.

HLV issue is a bump in the road-nothing more. A lot has been happening in space since the moon landings. APOLLO was just one of many programs. And programs come and go. But we still put them in orbit-consistently.

I don't want to argue... sorry, but THAT is exactly the bigheaded chitchat that stirs scepticism about the US in non-US countries all over this planet. A bit too arrogant...


Not arrogant. Or -ah-big headed. Or a bit too arrogant.

Just fact.

And your a Moderator?

I'll stick to visiting the helpful hints. Ciao.

Hi Tempest,

Everybody is entitled to his/her opinions - including the moderators ;)

Not agreeing with you, doesn't make somebody less fit for a mod "job", and agreeing with you (like myself) does not make me more fit for an Admin "job" either.

Let's enjoy the ride!

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Moonwalker

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2011, 09:14:46 PM »
Although the Germans and the Soviets improved on it, the father of modern rocketry is Dr. Robert Goddard.

This is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the first satellite, the first animal and the first human in earth orbit, which was all launched by Russia. Braun did not manage to get anything into earth orbit at that time whilst Goddard was dead already for quite some time.

The Amercans had their own SST Program. It was canceled for economic and political reasons. It was to be twice as big as Concorde and would cruise at Mach 3. It was based on the XB-70 which first flew in 1964, five years before Concorde.
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=592

The USA did even design way faster airplanes. But none of it was designed to carry 100 passengers at twice the speed of sound without using reheat (it is switched of at/above Mach 1.7). This is what I was talking about ;) The development of what later turned out to be a british-french Concorde project also begun in the 1950's like the XB-70.

The Concorde and TU-144 are neat airplanes don't get me wrong. But at roughly $10,000 USD for a round trip from New York to London, Concorde was a bit like the Constellation Program vs Falcon. The TU-144 was retired after 55 passenger carrying flights for both technical and economic reasons. Not much of a sucess other than as an excercise.

Concorde was expensive for passengers, but not involving loss like many people think. It was profitable since the 1980's already. But it was way less economic than a 747 still. The TU-144 was no successful though.

As for space stations while the Soviets launched Salyut 1 in 1971, two years before Skylab, it was occupied only once for 23 days. It wasn't until 1974 with Salyut 4 that they had real sucess.

Yes. But I was talking about the Mir station which was something totally new nobody ever had before. It consisted of modules which were send into LEO separately. This is the experience NASA build on for the ISS program, even chosing Soyuz as the primary crew and supply vehicle for the ISS.

As for Airbus refusing to sell 380's to the U.S. for Airforce One because they are worried about them stealing technology, perhaps you would share your source.

It was a German-language source. Maybe I can find it again and translate it.

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2011, 10:17:47 PM »
Moonwalker, you are not making any sense anymore - as a matter of fact, that's been the case for quite a while already.

Your last post is particularly funny in the way it convolutes and goes around the facts, just to prove your claims.

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Moonwalker

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 08:27:33 AM »
Moonwalker, you are not making any sense anymore

Maybe the following makes it easier for you to understand...

Tempest wrote:

"NOBODY and I mean NOBODY does it better then us. Nor are they as consistent. Not the Chinese, Russians, Europeans. None of them are giants 10 ft tall."

And now I reply, once again (and not by claims but by facts):

There never was just one big gigantic super nation. First animal in space, first satellite in space, first human in space and first EVA goes to Russia (as well as first space station). The USA did catch up by Gemini. Apollo marked the peak and the end of the actual race in space (ASTP - Apollo-Soyuz Test Project in 1975).

Before ISS, the first modular space station and biggest artificial object in earth orbit was the Russian Mir station. The Russian space program is rather consistent since the 1980's already. Mir was in orbit for 15 years and helped gaining a lot of experience with long-term stays in space and operating modular space stations. Nobody else did it the way Russia did it with Mir until ISS was launched. And Soyuz is in operation for decades without any loss for 39 years now. It is, by intention, the primary crew and support vehicle for the ISS program, and it will also be the only way to the ISS after Shuttle retirement.

Nobody downplays the role of the Space Shuttle. But people should be aware that there is not just one big super nation which does it all. There always was two (Sputnik and Laika even were launched before NASA was founded). And today, with Europe and China aboard, there are more than two super nations whilst the USA is going to be out of orbit manned.

The USA is a big space nation. But it is by far not the only one, and also not the only one who started all this. Russia is as big as the USA in space until today, but just with the exception that they did not make a big show on the lunar surface.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagarin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_Tereshkova

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra-vehicular_activity#EVA_milestones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 08:32:00 AM by Moonwalker »

bjbeard

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 10:26:49 AM »
*raises hand and scratches head*

Wow what a hornets nest! I am going to respond to the strange post by Mr Robinson then get into the space stuff.

The USAF was never interested in purchasing the A380. Obviously you never saw the fight over the KC-X Tanker project. In that competition and A330MRTT was the Airbus entry, and the Boeing entry was the KC-767 based on the 200F. That competition was a total pooch screw, and is now getting rebid, with Airbus out of the competition. And FYI three orders for the 747-8i have been placed by the USAF to replace the current 747-200 (VC-25).

Now on to the space stuff.
Anyone remember the SEI speech Bush gave back in July of 89?

Could that program, or one like it work with all the international partners now?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 10:29:09 AM by bjbeard »

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 12:39:17 PM »
Moonwalker, you're still not making sense and you're still trying to fit facts to your narrative, while ignoring to address other, less comfortable facts raised by other posters.

Needless to say that this is still not a discussion - it's a monologue.

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kbkline

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 09:45:33 PM »
you know, when I was an active member on a gaming site I would post something intentionally just to get things stirred up a bit. Nice to see I haven't lost my touch even though I did want or try to do that here ;) 

I guess it's to late to ask everyone to go back to the true intent of my thoughts now. Oh well......... Another day I suppose

bjbeard

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2011, 10:25:22 PM »
Well I tried to!

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2011, 12:25:05 PM »
Airbus is still in on the KC-X competition. it's close to 200 Airframes. no way they are going to miss on that. for them it's an extra foot print in US for it will require them to build a plant on US soil. which is a good thing for them (as they know that the building costs would be returned).

the AF1 bit is only 3 Airframes. doesn't make any sense economically. so they are not bidding.

BTW - Boeing are going to offer two options, one based on the 747-8i the other on the 787.
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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2011, 12:28:19 PM »
you know, when I was an active member on a gaming site I would post something intentionally just to get things stirred up a bit. Nice to see I haven't lost my touch even though I did want or try to do that here ;) 

I guess it's to late to ask everyone to go back to the true intent of my thoughts now. Oh well......... Another day I suppose
In this forum, in this sense, Moonwalker really puts you out of your league ;)

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bjbeard

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2011, 01:04:47 AM »
Airbus already knows they will not get the contract for the KC-X. The USAF is not going to modify existing hangars for the 330MRTT. The 762LRF based tanker should get the contract. The USAF can not have a tanker where 60% of the parts are made in Europe. The EADS facility in Mobile is only the final assembly point of the 330MRTT.

The really funny part of this was Antonov actually submitted a bid! Yea sure!!!! If the USAF has a problem buying European aircraft, what does that mean for a Russian one! ROFLMAO!!!!!

bjbeard

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Re: A show of hands for those who think we're going backwards......
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2011, 05:02:42 PM »
BTW I was wrong. 70% of the MRTT parts would have been made overseas. At least the USAF came to their senses...