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Author Topic: Moon return plan 'is dead'  (Read 29500 times)
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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2010, 09:32:19 AM »


I don't have a speculation theory. I'm just forced to follow the currently "official" speculation theory regarding NASAs budget and its future. My point is that as long as there are no official statements, and as long as we all here don't work for NASA (I guess) or for the US government (I guess even more), or as long as we don't know somebody in person who works for the US government or the NASA managament, we all have to rely on that currently "official" speculation theory until there are official statements available.

..SNIP...


No comment.

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schmidtrock
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« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2010, 04:48:55 PM »

 Cheesy Haha, this thread has been a fun read. Like watching a game of ping-pong  Grin
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desktopsimmer
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2010, 04:51:16 PM »

The Beeb are confirming the cancellation of constellation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8489097.stm

Okay the moon was too ambitious for one country to go, in todays climate, but maybe the journey should be made by a collective of countries, including Private companies.

Thinking about it, technically, the US the space program(s) is almost commercialised as NASA used a multitude of companies to build the equipment and run the equipment. To over simplify, NASA just 'project managed' and provided the funds. Maybe this is the step that is needed to make space more 'accessible'

The biggest problem is making space launching (man and unmanned) profitable and safe, a difficult balancing act. What I can see in the future is NASA becoming a service to space companies and space regulatory body, with a limited scope on science roles.  Probably major science missions will be run directly by universities (The Hale Space Telescope) and tech companies. Transportation of crews and equipment to Stations and outpost handled by 'PAM-AM' on Boeing Craft. Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 05:51:58 PM »

Cheesy Haha, this thread has been a fun read. Like watching a game of ping-pong  Grin

Yes, ping-pong indeed. From where I was playing however it was a no-brainer. After all, I already knew the result of the game.

/Admin
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schmidtrock
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 06:14:45 PM »

Cheesy Haha, this thread has been a fun read. Like watching a game of ping-pong  Grin

Yes, ping-pong indeed. From where I was playing however it was a no-brainer. After all, I already knew the result of the game.

/Admin

I know Smiley That's why I was enjoying it so much.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 06:30:17 PM »

The difference between before and after is that now it's official Wink
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desktopsimmer
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 07:09:17 PM »

forty-love, match point.. oh that's Tennis, not ping-pong Smiley

as Admin said it was a no-brainer. To build a new system and to keep the cost down when there mothballed projects that could be utilised. If NASA / or a commercial venture seriously wanted to do this, the Shuttle-C /  Shuttle-Derived Heavy Launch Vehicle program would of been the best plan. Hell, the Capsule could of been a modified X38 strapped to a modified shuttle fuselage + SSMEs.

If the X-37B OTV-1 isn't cancelled for it flight this year , theres some thing to be gained there. I think its mainly been run by Boeing with the USAF as the main "employer". So we're on the step of commercial unmanned flights now...
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 08:36:28 PM »

The difference between before and after is that now it's official Wink

The difference between before and after is that before you doubted my source(s) and maybe you also assumed that nobody on this forum can have the right and reliable contacts in the right places to obtain such a high quality intelligence before it's made official.

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:39:57 PM by Admin » Logged

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Cygnus
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2010, 03:04:36 PM »

Anyone else sad to know that we won't be going back to the moon? Looks like China will get to visit before we do.

Was hoping for an extension on shuttle flights too.

Discuss.
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schmidtrock
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 04:49:55 PM »

Anyone else sad to know that we won't be going back to the moon? Looks like China will get to visit before we do.

Was hoping for an extension on shuttle flights too.

Discuss.

I'm sad too. I was really looking forward to it.
I have high hopes however for the re-direction.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 05:09:33 PM »

Well, a lot of people really do have wrong expectations regarding the Chinese space program. China is the third nation ins pace. Yes. But this is neither a threat, nor won't they go to the moon in any forseeable timeframe. And they don't even seriously intend to got to the moon before 2024, at the very earliest, which is nothing more than lip service anyway. The Chinses space program is not in a shape at all although many (uninformed) people do think it is. They have done only three manned flights within a decade, which was nothing more than test flights for now. Their next flight is not going to happen before 2011, which will be a gap between that last flight and the proposed flight of 3 years. For now their progress is way too slow to indicate any amazing steps in space. In fact, it is just political propaganda to show the rest of the world that the Middle Kingdom now does space flight as well. But they'll soon start to learn that not only on ground, but also in space working together is essential these days to keep manned space programs alive in the long term.

We should bear in mind that if ESA, NASA and Roscosmos don't go the moon because of no budget and missing innovations, nobody else won't go as well anyway. Less than ever China or India. Without international teamwork or at least a little teamwork, nobody will go to the moon alone anymore. Because any smart politician and sponsor knows that those footstep and flag demos are are nothing more than unnecessary propaganda. That the USA did go to the moon was a historic luck, a real luck that was based only on exactly one political reason and decision. A reason that is not given anymore at all. And nobody has the money anyway. We do it either together, or not at all. Low earth orbit might be possible for single nations and commercial space flight programs. But going to the moon and further, manned, is just too big for a single nation to achive in a useful way. The days of big governmental maverick space programs are over.

Also, I'm glad they, NASA and the gov., don't extend the shuttle flights. The program has prevented too much already. Modernizing the Kennedy Space Center and make it ready for commercial use will be a real gain for manned space flight technologies and progress. Now that's a real fine decision in my humble point of view. A few days ago I still thought Obama would let die manned space flight. But in fact he actually acts in a very smart way I have to say. I was judging too fast and to biased on him. But he and Bolden are doing fine with NASA now. After all, NASA gets more money and the chance to do much wiser things than just make a few new footsteps and flags on the lunar surface until there will be a dead horse once again. It's the first time NASA is entering a real long term program, not just a "big show". NASA is "the" space agency. I mean it really is "the" space agency on this planet. The manned part of NASA only makes a small part of the science NASA does. And they now get more money to do more earth sciences and even commercial space flight in future. Nobody competes NASA. Less then ever a single program like Shenzhou, which did not do any science for now, neither on ground nor in space. NASA is a real scientific body the USA can be really proud of. The gain of NASAs overall work and progress is unbeatable, even without manned flights! Americans do not have to fear the little Chinese program at all Wink Nobody has to.
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twinturbo99
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« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 07:15:05 PM »

"One giant leap backward for Mankind"

Thank you Obama
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 09:06:40 PM »

"One giant leap backward for Mankind"

Not quite. Just killing the s****d nationalistic "not invented here" mentality Wink

NASA will have to actually "free" space flight finally and support industries, inside and possibly outside the USA for international partnerships, instead of being the big old governmental space flight monopoly. Commercializing space means the beginning to offer space flight to more and more people and create jobs. See it as a big chance.

There are certain reasons why for example people like Buzz Aldrin already left NASA back then after the Apollo cut, to later found commercial space industries. And people like former Shuttle astronaut Ken Bowersox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Bowersox) become the vice president of the astronaut safety office of SpaceX. These people have understand where the future of space flight should go along instead of being dependant on big political agendas only.
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davidrobinsonjr
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 10:28:43 PM »

Quote
NASA will have to actually "free" space flight finally and support industries, inside and possibly outside the USA for international partnerships, instead of being the big old governmental space flight monopoly. Commercializing space means the beginning to offer space flight to more and more people and create jobs. See it as a big chance.

I for one will reserve judgment on that for quite a long time. I really try not to be to synical about our government but, things usually have a way of not working out quite like some politician tells us they will. Bolden was saying it will be six years at the earliest before anyone is ready to launch a human again in this country. This has been a problem for NASA since the begining. Politicians come and go and they all have different ideas of how to do things. They just chucked $9 billion down the drain and have to start almost over. I don't pretend to know much about Space X or some of the others but, what are they offering that Constellation is not offering? This is just one more politicians veiw of the world. If not a "giant leap backward" it is at least a big step backward IMHO.
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Moonwalker
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2010, 11:12:36 PM »

I don't pretend to know much about Space X or some of the others but, what are they offering that Constellation is not offering?

Cheap access to space in the first place. A Falcon 9 launch will cost only about 1/3 of what other comparable launches do cost on average afaik. The progress of SpaceX is amazing to be honest. I was sceptical as well but if you look at it, it's actually more than quite likely that SpaceX will launch both, crew and cargo into space. It is that much likely that NASA supports it. Based on Falcon 9 SpaceX will also develope Falcon 9 Heavy, also quite economical and a real monster rocket that can carry up to 28 tons into earth orbit.

Constellation was just another try of a big show. Launching humans to the moon again to set another few footprints on lunar soil. Beside the words Moon, Mars and beyond, there was no concept for the future at all. That program has swallowed amazingly 9 billion USD to launch a true to scale rocket model from the cape one time, do nice videos, animations and computer models. I was thinking that progress was amazing based on the quarterly reports of NASA. But instead they made just great advertising to pretend keeping and creating jobs and innovation. Ares 1 just had the assignment to launch Orion on top of it. No more, no less. There was no funding for any further launch vehicle, less than ever for a lunar lander. There wasn't even a second stage engine for Ares 1, and not even a second stage itself. 9 billion USD...
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